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Why is engine tech so dead?  

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SuperStockAMX
(@superstockamx)
Noble Member

Here’s my attempt at reviving it! Finally started assembling my new SS 390 engine this weekend.
Got the crank in for the final install. Went to file fit all the rings. Top rings came out of the package with .019” gap and I filed to .024”. Then I went for the #2 rings and out of the package was .045”! Same with oil rings! There...now I had to wait for Monday to exchange the #2 & oil rings which I assume were mixed with another set. Luckily Total Seal is only about 8 miles from my home and that was fixed 1st thing Monday morning. Now the good news...as I planned on installing the pistons Sunday afternoon and work in the shop all day / night to get this done...I ended up watching the Super Bowl and that was worth the delay on the engine!
I had a lot of real estate work to do today and tonight I finished up file fitting the remaining rings. Tomorrow I can install pistons.

Crankshaft work was done by ShafTech in MI and EVERY spec was 100% right on. I ended up with .0028” on all main journals, .0015” on every rod journal and .005” on crank end-play.

Thought I might share some fancy tools I bought. Yea, I know, not cheap. But I have to say it was almost a pleasure to file fit rings instead of using the wobbly hand grinder trying to get a parallel cut. All 8 sets of rings have the exact dimension with .024” top, .030” 2nd and .020” oil.

I used the typical 1” down ring squaring tool and this new Goodson tool which I used below the 1” ring squaring tool; the ring is sandwiched in between tools and the the top tool is removed to measure the ring gap. https://www.goodson.com/ring-squaring-tools/

I got a “deal” on this Total Seal ring grinder. I don’t care if you build one engine every two years...you have to get this! Every gap is exactly what I want it. Both ends of the ring are exactly square to one another. Took hardly anytime to do the job. The wheel on the right is a rubber wheel for dressing the burrs once you are done filing. http://www.totalseal.com/tools-power-ring-filer.html

My home-made grafted Mopar 383 Victor to AMC Performer Air-Gap base is almost done. Sides were finished milled last week and now porter can finish his internal work. Will start with old Torker intake first so I can compare to my work.

SuperStock / H
1970 390 AMC AMX
Advanced Clutches
Dual 7" Sportsman

1320/MPH=optimum ET!

NHRA SS/H
1970 390 AMC AMX
Advanced Clutches
Single 8” Billet
4300 Autolite
1320/MPH=optimum ET!

Quote
Posted : 06/02/2017 9:21 pm
seanm5005
(@seanm5005)
Reputable Member

Good to see you making progress on getting the car back to the track Jeff! Do you have a race that you are trying to make as a deadline?

I had a few catastrophic issues last year with the new engine. Everything was repaired/rebuilt just in time to test at the end of September. We tested 5 weekends in a row and it runs very well. I had a new cam made and hope to make more power and resolve the valve train issues. Switching from carburated 8 cyl to EFI turbo 4 cylinder is a learning curve, but I made the right decision on the combo.

Sean

Sean Marconette
83 Mustang GT
GF-5R
Advanced Dual 7"
#5060 NHRA SS/N

Sean Marconette
83 Mustang GT
GF-5R
Advanced Dual 7"
#5060 NHRA SS/N

ReplyQuote
Posted : 07/02/2017 8:34 am
sc68z28
(@sc68z28)
Honorable Member

quote:


Originally posted by SuperStockAMX

...started assembling my new SS 390 engine
I ended up with .0028” on all main journals, .0015” on every rod journal...


What will your bore x stoke end up?

Also curious on main vs rod journals, rods seem tight, compared to mains?? I'm assuming you'll run a thin oil?

Nice ring filer, I want one!

---Bill.

68 Camaro, blown 380, 7" 2 disc Advanced clutch, GF5R.
Best ET 8.65 @160, w/13 lbs boost.
All motor 10.06 @133
60' 1.28 vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OLzx5jBo4w

68 Camaro, blown 380, 7" 2 disc Advanced clutch, GF5R. [IMG">http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a224/sc68z28/stickwillie.jpg[/IMG">
Best ET 8.65 @160, w/13 lbs boost.
N/A 9.96 @133
60' 1.28 vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OLzx5jBo4w

ReplyQuote
Posted : 07/02/2017 9:15 am
SuperStockAMX
(@superstockamx)
Noble Member

We have a new S/SS Association in Arizona. Just had the 1st meet and 21 Stockers, 2 SS’s. Al Corda won the $1,000 prize money on his $50 (?) entry. They are having next race, actually two, March 25/26 which is my goal! I want to do my best to support this as I think it’s a great deal...maybe better than NHRA.

Today my new and bigger turbo arrives for my 2.0l turbo 2015 VW CC. Started at 200 HP factory. I’m around 290ish right now. New K04 turbo (K03 is stock) + new cast aluminum intake manifold w/ flapper delete and a lot more airflow + Snow injection will be 375ish HP @ the crank! That’s about 3hp per inch! I can’t wait to get it installed.
Love turbo 4cylinder cars. I will still get 30+ MPG if out of boost. This has a 6-speed manual transmission also. New beefier clutch going in also.

SuperStock / H
1970 390 AMC AMX
Advanced Clutches
Dual 7" Sportsman

1320/MPH=optimum ET!

NHRA SS/H
1970 390 AMC AMX
Advanced Clutches
Single 8” Billet
4300 Autolite
1320/MPH=optimum ET!

ReplyQuote
Posted : 07/02/2017 9:16 am
Dennis111
(@dennis111)
Reputable Member

quote:


Originally posted by sc68z28
rods seem tight,

Nice ring filler, I want one!


I agree on both counts. I'd want a minimum .002 (but preferably .0025 or so) on the rods for racing.

Dennis
65' STANG, 434W NA, G101A, 4:71 Spool, Victor Heads, Super Vic Intake, Bullet SR, Braswell Carb, 11:1 CR, 3550lbs

9.97@135.13

Dennis
65' STANG, 434W NA, G101A, 4:56 Spool, Victor Heads, Super Vic Intake, Bullet SR, Braswell Carb, 11:1 CR, 3550lbs
9.66@140.65

ReplyQuote
Posted : 07/02/2017 12:31 pm
SuperStockAMX
(@superstockamx)
Noble Member

Misprint....Rods are .0018” and are 1.88” Honda journals. I use 0-20w Brad Penn Xp2. Don’t forget when discussing clearances it’s relative to the journal size.
Speaking of oil, and this is no doubt overkill, I have this system; mainly because I’m paranoid! http://www.masterlube.net/racing.htm Not the same as Accusump or Canton’s version.
Other info: Billet steel Pro-Gram engineering main caps w/ 4-bolt in the center three.
5.850” Oliver billet I-Beam rods Ultra-Lite series. .927” pins. Diamond pistons.
4.236” bore. 3.588 stroke.
Redline Racing custom 55mm billet solid roller cam. Crower .904” bushing lifters. T&D shaft rockers.
Here’s the latest on my intake manifold build with latest pictures:
http://amccars.net/cgi/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1430193733/105#105 (see last page).
It’s in for final porting since it was milled to fit my block & heads. When you get a manifold welded on like this one...nothing is square! What a mess...

Tool of the night! http://www.lockintool.com for putting those POS spiral locks on. While this is still a pain in the ass, it is much better than installing with your thumbnail and screwdriver! After dinner I put 6 pistons and rods together and got interrupted by “Curse of Oak Island”. Anybody else watch that show on History Channel?
I have two pistons with pin bosses that the wrist pins won’t go through without a hammer. Obviously that’s not right. The issue is that “Line2Line” coating was inadvertently sprayed in there. Same issue with most of the other pistons but I was able to clean those up with steel wool. The last two have to much build-up so I’ll tackle tomorrow.

SuperStock / H
1970 390 AMC AMX
Advanced Clutches
Dual 7" Sportsman

1320/MPH=optimum ET!

NHRA SS/H
1970 390 AMC AMX
Advanced Clutches
Single 8” Billet
4300 Autolite
1320/MPH=optimum ET!

ReplyQuote
Posted : 07/02/2017 9:57 pm
SuperStockAMX
(@superstockamx)
Noble Member

Second ring is being a pain! Gapped all the new rings. Rings measure .043” and piston ring land is .045”. This is napier ring. Rings fit nice in the groove UNTIL you install the ring and squeeze the ends together and the ends stick in the groove. Take out and virtually polish the ends. This is not on all rings but quite a few. Finally, I see it appears the ring is twisted on the ends. There lies the problem.
Back to TS Monday morning and they confirm that is the problem. Don’t know how this occurred but they give me new 2nds. Take them home, file and install no problem. Now time to get pistons in but have relatives flying in Friday / Saturday so that is 1st priority. Maybe tomorrow I can squeeze some time in.

SuperStock / H
1970 390 AMC AMX
Advanced Clutches
Dual 7" Sportsman

1320/MPH=optimum ET!

NHRA SS/H
1970 390 AMC AMX
Advanced Clutches
Single 8” Billet
4300 Autolite
1320/MPH=optimum ET!

ReplyQuote
Posted : 14/02/2017 3:30 pm
sc68z28
(@sc68z28)
Honorable Member

quote:


Originally posted by SuperStockAMX

...I have this system; mainly because I’m paranoid! http://www.masterlube.net/racing.htm Not the same as Accusump or Canton’s version.


Jeff, what makes this better/different than the others in your opinion?
I am considering some kind of accumulator system for mine, also paranoid.
My oil pressure drops after launch, goes from 70 to 35, then slowly recovers to 55- 60 by about half track.

Also how is your assembly coming?

---Bill.

68 Camaro, blown 380, 7" 2 disc Advanced clutch, GF5R.
Best ET 8.65 @160, w/13 lbs boost.
N/A 10.06 @133
60' 1.28 vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OLzx5jBo4w

68 Camaro, blown 380, 7" 2 disc Advanced clutch, GF5R. [IMG">http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a224/sc68z28/stickwillie.jpg[/IMG">
Best ET 8.65 @160, w/13 lbs boost.
N/A 9.96 @133
60' 1.28 vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OLzx5jBo4w

ReplyQuote
Posted : 27/02/2017 7:01 am
SuperStockAMX
(@superstockamx)
Noble Member

Call the company and talk to the owner and he will spend 1/2 hour on the phone with you comparing. But in a nutshell, this system operates on pressure only. Must be mounted vertically. No internal piston which can leak or not operate if the tank is dented. Masterlube will function fine if you beat it with a bat. You adjust the feed rate. I was told bouncing oil pressure gauge will be a thing of the past. Call him, he will answer the phone.

Just figured out a problem Monday as I brought pistons to TS to help me as I was pulling my hair out on second ring. I was measuring ring land width with verniers. Find that is wrong, must use pin gauges. Bottom line is land is about .0005” to narrow and rings are about .0005” to thick. At least I know what the issue is and it’s not me (other than not having the right measuring tool). So I must now hand finish the #2 rings to size on a plate glass with wet/dry sandpaper. TS said 400 grit and I say “no way”, I’ll use 1000 grit.
Pretty much at a standstill for now as my son just made Eagle Scout earlier this month and we are having the Eagle Court of Honor ceremony at our house 03/17/17 and as you can imagine, it’s a big deal! Plus work. I am going to sneak some ring work in here and there. Picked up the intake manifold I created yesterday and I can’t wait to try it!
Here’s the write up (see last page). You probably have never seen a manifold textured up like this!
http://amccars.net/cgi/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1430193733/105#105

SuperStock / H
1970 390 AMC AMX
Advanced Clutches
Dual 7" Sportsman

1320/MPH=optimum ET!

NHRA SS/H
1970 390 AMC AMX
Advanced Clutches
Single 8” Billet
4300 Autolite
1320/MPH=optimum ET!

ReplyQuote
Posted : 27/02/2017 3:17 pm
sc68z28
(@sc68z28)
Honorable Member

I will call and have a chat with Masterlube. After reviewing there site, I had a felling it was air over oil, no piston. I get that it will work that way, just needs the cylinder mounted vertical.

Jeff, tell your son CONGRATS on Eagle! That's not an easy accomplishment.
Also you should get some credit as most boys would not make it without good parental support. So my congrats to you also, you should be real proud.
I did not get that far, Life was as far as I got. Wish I could go back and do 1968 over.

Interesting texture on the manifold, helps with fuel mixing? I'll assume irrelevant with port EFI?

---Bill.

68 Camaro, blown 380, 7" 2 disc Advanced clutch, GF5R.
Best ET 8.65 @160, w/13 lbs boost.
N/A 10.06 @133
60' 1.28 vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OLzx5jBo4w

68 Camaro, blown 380, 7" 2 disc Advanced clutch, GF5R. [IMG">http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a224/sc68z28/stickwillie.jpg[/IMG">
Best ET 8.65 @160, w/13 lbs boost.
N/A 9.96 @133
60' 1.28 vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OLzx5jBo4w

ReplyQuote
Posted : 27/02/2017 5:06 pm
motorman
(@motorman)
Reputable Member

When you sand the rings make sure you use a figure 8 pattern or they clean up uneven....

ReplyQuote
Posted : 28/02/2017 9:22 am
SuperStockAMX
(@superstockamx)
Noble Member

Motorman - Thanks for that tip on ring sanding!!!

Bill - I have been there all along. First as the reluctant Den Leader at Cub Scouts 1st grade (hey...what happened to the Den leader?...anybody want to take over?...No...guess I’m it!) to Assistant Scout Master in Boy Scouts. It’s been a mostly good adventure but with the politics and such...I’m done! His project was awesome. Totally knocked down a delapidated old bridge on USFS land and rebuilt it. Hope he has a son that gets to see it 20 years from now. And don’t forget mom!
Texture is for air/fuel separation. I would think not for EFI. Elmo swears it works. I need to take a look at that tool or whatever he uses.

Closed escrow on my old home today so one less headache!

SuperStock / H
1970 390 AMC AMX
Advanced Clutches
Dual 7" Sportsman

1320/MPH=optimum ET!

NHRA SS/H
1970 390 AMC AMX
Advanced Clutches
Single 8” Billet
4300 Autolite
1320/MPH=optimum ET!

ReplyQuote
Posted : 28/02/2017 6:46 pm
SuperStockAMX
(@superstockamx)
Noble Member

No time to work on this until the dang party at the home with probably 75+ guests March 17th. Honey Do list is never ending....

SuperStock / H
1970 390 AMC AMX
Advanced Clutches
Dual 7" Sportsman

1320/MPH=optimum ET!

NHRA SS/H
1970 390 AMC AMX
Advanced Clutches
Single 8” Billet
4300 Autolite
1320/MPH=optimum ET!

ReplyQuote
Posted : 07/03/2017 9:19 am
seanm5005
(@seanm5005)
Reputable Member

Congratulations on your sons achievement. There is no doubt this is a family affair, too many parents think scouts is a free night or weekend for them without the kids. Hope the engine build presents no more obstacles.

Sean

Sean Marconette
83 Mustang GT
GF-5R
Advanced Dual 7"
#5060 NHRA SS/N

Sean Marconette
83 Mustang GT
GF-5R
Advanced Dual 7"
#5060 NHRA SS/N

ReplyQuote
Posted : 17/03/2017 8:12 am
SuperStockAMX
(@superstockamx)
Noble Member

I have to say the Eagle Court of Honor ceremony at our home last night was probably the best I’ve ever attended. We had OA (Order ofd the Arrow BSA) perform their indian skit with an eagle dancer and in our troop is a 5x world champion native american hoop dancer who’s 13 year old son did a hoop dance for eagle scout and the dad did chants and drum. Blew the audience away! Had almost 60 in attendance.
I’d like to assemble the engine long-block by this time next week. I sent the pistons off for a little more lightening and should be here Tuesday? I’m ready for the all nighters....

SuperStock / H
1970 390 AMC AMX
Advanced Clutches
Dual 7" Sportsman

1320/MPH=optimum ET!

NHRA SS/H
1970 390 AMC AMX
Advanced Clutches
Single 8” Billet
4300 Autolite
1320/MPH=optimum ET!

ReplyQuote
Posted : 18/03/2017 9:08 am
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