Fixed timing  

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maverick
(@maverick)
Estimable Member

I just want to know if you run you timing fixed, so it at one advance or if you prefer a curve or variable timing. And what is the rpm range of you run or pull?

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Posted : 30/12/2018 8:59 pm
seanm5005
(@seanm5005)
Reputable Member

It depends on the application. My carbed engine had fixed timing. But had the ability to pull x amount with a microswitch on 5th gear. That was with a MSD 6+. I did not see any gains from pulling timing. The current engine is EFI and has a turbo, I pull more timing as the boost increases, but that is very typical in that application.

Sean

Sean Marconette
83 Mustang GT
GF-5R
Advanced Dual 7"
#5060 NHRA SS/N

Sean Marconette
83 Mustang GT
GF-5R
Advanced Dual 7"
#5060 NHRA SS/N

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Posted : 31/12/2018 5:20 am
Battlestar
(@battlestar)
Famed Member

I changed to fixed timing maybe 5-7 yrs ago. Didn't see any change in performance. I run an old 6al with a start retard plugged in. I run 40* total. Since I leave at 5k+ and shift at 6500, traps 6500, there isn't much room for a timing curve to do anything anyhow.

I always ran only one spring on the advance anyway. Just enough to pull it back to start easy, but at idle it runs it up to 25-30* so it didn't have far to go for total.

Larry
1964 Galaxie wagon
**2006 NORTH Q/S POINTS CHAMP**
**2009 NORTH Q/S POINTS CHAMP**

Canton Automotive Machine
Carls Ford Parts
Hyatt Racing Clutch

Larry
1964 Galaxie wagon
**2006 NORTH Q/S POINTS CHAMP**
**2009 NORTH Q/S POINTS CHAMP**
Canton Automotive Machine
Carls Ford Parts
Hyatt Racing Clutch

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Posted : 02/01/2019 5:37 am
maverick
(@maverick)
Estimable Member

So Sean, how much timing did you take out. The amount I am looking at is 20 degrees. I use a grid, and been taking timing out at the launch, and first gear.

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Posted : 02/01/2019 11:50 pm
seanm5005
(@seanm5005)
Reputable Member

5-8 deg. That box only has the ability to pull 9.9 deg. Are you wanting to pull timing for traction purposes for 1st gear? That's a lot of timing! If the car responds in a positive manner than more power to what you are doing!

Sean

Sean Marconette
83 Mustang GT
GF-5R
Advanced Dual 7"
#5060 NHRA SS/N

Sean Marconette
83 Mustang GT
GF-5R
Advanced Dual 7"
#5060 NHRA SS/N

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Posted : 03/01/2019 2:19 pm
b.guggenmos
(@b-guggenmos)
Estimable Member

Also locked timing at 38 degrees on a 351C. I have a MSD starter saver on my 6A box to pull out 10 degrees while cranking. All of the old stuff is going to removed for a new 7AL3 soon.

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Posted : 03/01/2019 3:30 pm
SuperStockAMX
(@superstockamx)
Noble Member

who has retarded timing for traction with a GRID or any other method? What amount is pulled and what rate is the timing reapplied to advance?
I would think you would have to change Base Pressure on your clutch based on what tune you have?

NHRA SS/H
1970 390 AMC AMX
Advanced Clutches
Single 8” Billet
4300 Autolite

1320/MPH=optimum ET!

NHRA SS/H
1970 390 AMC AMX
Advanced Clutches
Single 8” Billet
4300 Autolite
1320/MPH=optimum ET!

ReplyQuote
Posted : 04/01/2019 3:40 pm
maverick
(@maverick)
Estimable Member

Well don't forget that the clutch has centrifucal, so you lower the RpM at the start, it will have less clamping. And yes I run a grid and I take about twenty out at the start, and I bring it back in. Just trying to get a different idea, by asking

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Posted : 04/01/2019 6:39 pm
Battlestar
(@battlestar)
Famed Member

If you leave at the same RPM, the clutch will react the same. The fact you remove HP allows the tires to bite, then ramp the HP back up.

Pretty sure that is how all the stupid fast turbo cars do it. Computer watches everything and constantly adjusts power for traction.

Larry
1964 Galaxie wagon
**2006 NORTH Q/S POINTS CHAMP**
**2009 NORTH Q/S POINTS CHAMP**

Canton Automotive Machine
Carls Ford Parts
Hyatt Racing Clutch

Larry
1964 Galaxie wagon
**2006 NORTH Q/S POINTS CHAMP**
**2009 NORTH Q/S POINTS CHAMP**
Canton Automotive Machine
Carls Ford Parts
Hyatt Racing Clutch

ReplyQuote
Posted : 06/01/2019 7:37 am
SuperStockAMX
(@superstockamx)
Noble Member

Yes, a lot of small tire racers use traction control devises such as Davis but such items are strictly prohibited in my class (SS).
If you dial in a timing curve, it’s allowed as long as the cars reaction or traction does not alter the skew.
I’m guessing Launch RPM would be the same. I’m also guessing timing would ramp up in segments.
Guess I’ll just have to figure it out when I get on the track. Hopefully soon.

NHRA SS/H
1970 390 AMC AMX
Advanced Clutches
Single 8” Billet
4300 Autolite

1320/MPH=optimum ET!

NHRA SS/H
1970 390 AMC AMX
Advanced Clutches
Single 8” Billet
4300 Autolite
1320/MPH=optimum ET!

ReplyQuote
Posted : 06/01/2019 1:10 pm
app01
(@app01)
Estimable Member

I also have my timing locked (28*) along with an MSD Pro billet disty and 6AL box. It always starts nice and easy hot or cold. When I first built the engine and Dyno tuned it, going to fixed timing improved the dyno pulls and I left it that way since. No track data before after. I have since varied the timing a few degrees and 28 is the best overall.

70 Mach 1 Mustang w/ SBF Boss Block 460 Stroker
670HP NA, AED Carb, head/intake work, Duane Busch, Dyno work PK machine, McLeod Softloc, GForce G101a 4-speed, Strange rear, w/4:30 spool,35 spline axles. 3540lbs
best so far is 9.911 @136.86
Build thread http://www.palmiericoncepts.com/My-Mustangs/1970build/Final-Build.htm

70 Mach 1 Mustang w/ SBF Boss Block 460 Stroker
670HP NA, AED Carb, head/intake work, Duane Busch, Dyno work PK machine, GForce G101a 4-speed, Strange rear, w/4:30 spool,35 spline axles. 3540lbs
best so far is 9.911 @136.86
Build thread http://www.palmiericoncepts.com/My-Mustangs/1970build/Final-Build.htm
[IMG">http://www.palmiericoncepts.com/My-Mustangs/signature-small2.gif[/IMG">

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Posted : 07/01/2019 3:40 am
Battlestar
(@battlestar)
Famed Member

Yes, I suppose as long as there is no "feedback" into the timing control, then it should be legal for SS. It could be one more adjustment to control your launch with a small tire and if the track is greasy. With some testing I could see a set amount you could pull timing that you know will do "X" amount of improvement on a slippery track.

Hmmm, it has me thinking.....LOL!

Larry
1964 Galaxie wagon
**2006 NORTH Q/S POINTS CHAMP**
**2009 NORTH Q/S POINTS CHAMP**

Canton Automotive Machine
Carls Ford Parts
Hyatt Racing Clutch

Larry
1964 Galaxie wagon
**2006 NORTH Q/S POINTS CHAMP**
**2009 NORTH Q/S POINTS CHAMP**
Canton Automotive Machine
Carls Ford Parts
Hyatt Racing Clutch

ReplyQuote
Posted : 07/01/2019 4:21 am
SuperStockAMX
(@superstockamx)
Noble Member

Since I’ve always raced with a carburator, I’m a zero at laptop tuning. But I bought the Grid with the idea that it could be found beneficial. The last engine dynode had 1 cylinder some 200 degrees cooler than the rest. So I just retarded that cylinder 2* and it picked up exactly what it needed to match the other 7. I really don’t recall that it made an once more HP.
I expect I will have multiple tune files based on track conditions and I’ll choose from file A-B-C- or D and see what happens. But first I need to get the POS to the track....

NHRA SS/H
1970 390 AMC AMX
Advanced Clutches
Single 8” Billet
4300 Autolite

1320/MPH=optimum ET!

NHRA SS/H
1970 390 AMC AMX
Advanced Clutches
Single 8” Billet
4300 Autolite
1320/MPH=optimum ET!

ReplyQuote
Posted : 08/01/2019 9:05 am
Battlestar
(@battlestar)
Famed Member

A buddy races a foxbody with blown small block. Stupid fast. Was checking stuff out one day at the track and he was playing with his laptop and GRID. He showed me all the crazy stuff they can do. Like timing control on each cylinder. Apparently he has a weak cylinder(deck is cracked), so he pulls timing from that cylinder to help the motor survive. Crazy. I told him I have a clutch pedal and a mechanical tach!!

All this fancy stuff is cool, but in the end I never do purchase it. At this point in my career of racing, I do okay enough without information overload.

Larry
1964 Galaxie wagon
**2006 NORTH Q/S POINTS CHAMP**
**2009 NORTH Q/S POINTS CHAMP**

Canton Automotive Machine
Carls Ford Parts
Hyatt Racing Clutch

Larry
1964 Galaxie wagon
**2006 NORTH Q/S POINTS CHAMP**
**2009 NORTH Q/S POINTS CHAMP**
Canton Automotive Machine
Carls Ford Parts
Hyatt Racing Clutch

ReplyQuote
Posted : 09/01/2019 4:29 am
xxbirch
(@xxbirch)
Prominent Member

No substitute for seat time in stickshift racing. You've learned your car, and consistency matters more to winning that those last couple hundredths.

I'd rather shift than win

I'd rather shift than win

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Posted : 10/01/2019 12:30 pm
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